Podcast: Reflections by the Family of Nigel Phillips on His Suicide During a Police Chase
By Kietryn Zychal
Friends and family of Nigel Phillips gather to pray in the backyard where Phillips took his own life after being chased on foot by Omaha police officers conducting a traffic stop for expired license plates.
Image credit: NOISE
Nigel Phillips’ father, Kenny Ingram, his mother and sister, Tonya and Sierra Phillips spoke to reporters for half an hour after a backyard memorial service for Nigel where friends and family released balloons near the spot where he took his own life during a police foot chase following a traffic accident.
Ingram told NOISE he was not allowed to view his son’s body at the scene on Thursday evening. He attended a meeting on Friday with the police chief and his deputy, state senators, and a city council member. Together, they viewed footage from the officer’s body cameras. Ingram was finally allowed to see his son’s body Saturday morning before the autopsy, about 36 hours after his death.
Click here to listen to a podcast with highlights from his interview produced by NOISE and Figure Podcasts.
Phillips’ father speaking at the scene where he lost his son to suicide,
“I think that the majority of us do have PTSD. It’s just of a different nature. Not so much indicative of a war with another country, but a war within the community.”
This interview is edited for length and clarity:
“It was terrifying”
INGRAM: I went, I viewed the body cam from multiple officers, multiple different angles, and I’ve also viewed the body before they started the autopsy. And it does, it’s a self-inflicted gunshot wound. So. Yeah.
NOISE: Would you want the footage released or do you just want people to know that you’ve seen it and you’re satisfied that it appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound?
INGRAM: For the sake of the community, they should be able to release some of the footage so they can see that a lot of the speculations that are going around on social media are not true. I had to see it for myself. Because I had doubt…Because I did not see my son’s body before they transported it. If I was able to see a lot of things I’d be able to piece it together and come to the conclusion that I just came to. Being able to see the body, being able to see the camera footage, I’m convinced, and I’m satisfied, that it is 100% a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
NOISE: Did your son have PTSD? Or what— as father— do you think made him do this?
INGRAM: You know what? Living in this community, on the Northside, I think that the majority of us do have PTSD. It’s just of a different nature. Not so much indicative of a war with another country, but a war within the community. I think we do all have some form of PTSD.
NOISE: So you think just being chased by the police…
INGRAM: [interrupts] It was terrifying.
FAMILY: [in unison] Yes, it was terrifying.
“Policies do need to be changed”
NOISE: What about traffic stops? Do you have any feeling about stopping someone for an expired registration, in a community where everybody’s got PTSD and they’re afraid of the police, do you think that there should be a different policy about traffic stops?
INGRAM: I had that talk with Schmaderer [Omaha Police Chief] and Ken Kanger [Deputy Chief]. And I let them know policies do need to be changed. Because at the particular time when they were in pursuit, and you know there are children in the car, they should pull off all pursuits. And even if they wanted to set up somewhere else a perimeter. But, as far as a pursuit, that’s how people get killed. If you want to chase a suspect, but you really don’t know what’s all going on, and it’s just traffic? You back off, and if you have to, catch him somewhere else. But, as far as chasing, a lot of people get killed, lives get lost. You’re at high rates of speed trying to catch someone who has an expired license, maybe a misdemeanor warrant. But, we’re risking the community with a high-speed chase. It’s insane.
NOISE: What kind of a reaction did you get from the police when you said there should be a change in policy?
INGRAM: They talk about all kinds of policies and changes that may need to be dealt with through legislation. But, sometimes, the chief can implement things like, if you see children in a car, unless [the suspect is] an active shooter, they need to back off of high speed chases because that does more damage than it does good. […] Just like I told them, we need change and change is a good thing.
NOISE: Will you speak to the mayor and your city councilperson about these changes?
INGRAM: Yes, I will. There were three Nebraska senators there.
NOISE: Terrell McKinney, Justin Wayne and …
Tonya (left) and Sierra Phillips (right), Nigel’s mother and sister stand with Kenny Ingram, Nigel’s father, as he speaks to NOISE and other local media about his son’s passing. Image credit: NOISE
FAMILY: Juanita Johnson.
NOISE: She’s the new city councilperson.
INGRAM: They said they usually don’t sit down with the parents of a murder suspect and go through the footage. But I told them it’s a change, and change is what takes us to the future. Progress.
CHANNEL 6: Do you feel that meeting is something that they should continue?
INGRAM: Yes. I told them if you want the community to have trust in you— one— You have to be transparent and— two— you walk them through it. […] In the very beginning when I came here, I could not see my child. But, after talking to them more and more, there was one particular officer, Ken Kanger, and compared to the other officers, he was more willing to say, “Ken, let’s talk. We’re going to be as transparent as possible.” And he stayed in contact with me going through the process, the updates, the new developments. While I was at home on the phone, in person, this morning. He kept to it, which made me feel comfortable because it made me feel he was doing his part to try to reconnect the community to policing.
“They get too aggressive”
SIERRA PHILLIPS (sister): I do think these police need to let up sometimes when it comes to these young men.
INGRAM: They get too aggressive. Just like I told Schmaderer, the detectives, the senators that was in there, I said, look what’s going on across the United States in almost all major cities. Young Black men are getting gunned down whether they got a gun or not. How do we heal this? […] The community has to ask the city leaders to get creative, get inventive. Once or twice, I’ve had a meeting with the mayor. But, at the same time, if they’re not finding solutions or trying to get together at a round table, then stuff never happens, it just keeps going. The cycle just keeps going.
“He laid on the ground close to four hours”
INGRAM: I think there should be meetings with the community and the police department. I think there should be a lot more meetings, to try to understand what’s going on out here.
TONYA PHILLIPS (mother): They should be better about notifying. Because we didn’t know nothing about our son being out here. I found out about 9:30, 10 o’clock. I was talking to my daughter (Brittany) on video and they (police) told her to go to Channel 7 News, and that’s when I started calling all the hospitals and they told me you have to wait for the Omaha Police Department to call you and they never called. […]
SIERRA: We knew because Omaha Police Scanner, everybody else, posted everything before we were able to even know. [Explains that the female passenger in Nigel’s car called Tonya to let her know what was happening.] We got here on the scene before they (police) said anything to anybody.
TONYA: I understand that they had to do a fingerprint and all that, but his Dad was here.
INGRAM: I asked them, can they walk me to my son? And they were trying to say they needed to get an identification. I told them I could visually identify my son. They could have walked me to… and from a distance I could have told them whether it was my son or not. I got here close to 7 [p.m.] and I was talking to them, trying to see my son and they didn’t actually tell me until 11, 10-something at night. They held me off close to four hours. He laid on the ground close to four hours. And I also wanted to make sure they were treating his body humanely. […] I told them, that’s his car down there on 34th. I could have walked back there with one of the detectives, took a visual view and determined, yes, this is my son.
“Don Kleine kept denying for me to view the body”
NOISE: When did you view the body?
INGRAM: I just viewed the body this morning. [Saturday, 36 hours after the death.] And that is something as well that they need to do. Now, Don Kleine kept denying for me to view the body. I’m like, so you’re telling me I can’t view the body until either after he’s put in the grave or cremated? That’s not the last image I want of my son. I want to see my son whether he’s alive on the ground or dead on the ground. Don Kleine kept trying to deny me access. I told them, “Where’s the transparency?” And why isn’t Don Kleine in this meeting with Schmaderer, [Nebraska] senators, myself, Internal Affairs. Why isn’t Don Kleine making these decisions and talking amongst us while we were going through this and the body cam? So, if you want to deny me access to see my son’s last moments, I need you in my face telling me why. […] He kept saying no, and I pressed Schmaderer and the other officer to keep talking to him, press him to let me see my son before we put him in the grave. […] And he actually did.
NOISE: You never actually had any interaction with Don Kleine?
INGRAM: No. And I couldn’t understand, if you’re going to tell me no, why not be here and tell me no. And we’re in a meeting here with everybody representing different parties. If he wanted to deny it, why couldn’t he be at the meeting?
NOISE: So, they didn’t actually use you to identify the body, they told you that they had identified the body.
Family and friends of Nigel Phillips hug before releasing balloons in his honor. Image Credit: NOISE
INGRAM: They brought in a fingerprint analysis. I could have saved them hours.
NOISE: So, maybe in a situation like this with a grieving parent who might be hysterical to see their child shot, maybe they should have mental health people on staff for this kind of situation? Do you think that would have helped if you weren’t just dealing with police, if there was a mental health professional?
INGRAM: If they needed to have representatives from social services, mental health facilities out here on crime scene, and they become like a liaison amongst each other to see if the parents are capable of handling the stress of seeing their child on the ground dying or died. […] and then if the parents are mentally fit and capable to view it, then they should all three walk - go view the body.
NOISE: (to mother) Were you out here, Mrs. Phillips?
TONYA: No, I was home.
INGRAM: I kept telling them, if you want transparency, if you want the community to trust policing, you work with the community and you work together as one. That is how things get solved. And that’s how you deaden a lot of issues with the community and police. But, if police want to be like, “We’ll let you know about it whenever, or we’ll tell you when we find out…”
NOISE: I know that there are these meetings called Omaha 360 where the community does meet with the police. Do you think they need something else to deal with specifically the issues of a grieving family whose loved one has been involved in some kind of shooting?
INGRAM: I’ve been to a couple of the 360 meetings. And that’s held in a nice air-conditioned room, where people are at the table and you have the speakers in front. But, let’s get 360 to be the liaison between the community and the police out here at the scene. […] We have to figure out something that’s going to save lives. It’s easy to take a life. But, how can we save them? So, misdemeanor pursuits need to stop.
Click here for more of our coverage on the loss of Nigel Phillips.